I have just been diagnosed with stage 4 secondary liver cancer. I felt I was in free fall whe I was told a few ago. I want to run but I can't.  We are a member of a club we do not want to be in and yet more that a third of people will get cancer. It's terrifying. I'm finding hard it to be the sick one too. I'm the fixer and doer in my family and I can't get used to not being that person any more. 

I wish you good luck with treatment. I also find Maggie's centre invaluable for counseling at the moment they have save me a few times ️

Hello 747, my heart goes out to you, I can feel the free fall you are feeling. Thank you for taking the time to write to me. I wish you the strength to bear this without such anguish and hope you find the support you need. x

Hi girls,

Glad to see you are still coping with your treatment, Sam, despite your side effects.  Caroline, it seems that our essential six month checkup is definitely not essential - how can they know of everything is ok from five minutes on the phone. I did, at least, get an appointment for a face to face checkup in July, and my mammogram for September.  it will be interesting to hear what they tell you, Sam, when your turn comes. 
What size was your tumour, Caroline? Mine was 4cm, but I haven't been given the same advice about checking for changes, probably because where it should be flat is one big lump.  it doesn't fill you with confidence when they tell you something that bothers you is common, with no advice about dealing with it.

I've been thinking I'm doing all right on the Letrozole, but I'm beginning to think perhaps these headaches I'm getting might be caused by it  I have never been subject to headaches in the past, apart from migraines when I was working, and now I'm getting them every day and, recently, I'm feeling very stiff with lower back pain  it could be the dreaded exercises from the physio, I tend to tense every muscle in my body while doing them, despite trying to relax the rest of my body, it's hard to tell, Letrozole or exercises(?) and the exercises have done so much to relieve the pain in my knee - I'm walking without the strapping now -  so I need to keep up with them, and the Letrozole is supposed to be keeping the big C at bay so I should keep up with them, too!  Of course it could just be that lockdown is giving me too much time to notice things I would normally ignore  

I eventually took the painting of my friend who died, and left it on her husband's doorstep.  He didn't answer the door and I suspected he was out in his back garden so I left a message on his answer phone telling him to go to the front door.  A couple of hours later I got a call from him to say thank you.  He said he would find a good place to hang it but I think he was surprised by it and  sounded quite subdued. I hoped I hadn't upset him by not telling him about it beforehand.  But then quite early yesterday morning he phoned again, and this time he was really excited to tell me he had tried it in different places but has finally put it on the coffee table next to the television so he can see her every time he sits down. He was really effusive this time, and said it is just her and he loves it and when "all this" is over we must have a coffee to talk about her.  That was nice to hear, I knew I liked it and it looked like her in my eyes but I didn't really know her and the family might have seen her totally differently  I also got a call this week from the young man who was the recipient of his grandparents' portrait, thanking me for it and inviting me to come and see it in place when lockdown is over!  Amazing how a little bit of appreciation makes you feel good! I just hope no one else asks me to do one, it's fine painting for your own pleasure but the responsibility of doing a commission is quite stressful!

I've got to find something else to paint, now  I'll probably do an animal picture or a landscape, next.  

Sam, you have an amazing gift of being able to make me laugh with your observations and  I am not surprised the cushions are still a figment of your imagination :) Only because you are still  having treatment and recovering takes it out of you too much to bother about cushions!

Take care, girls. Sam I hope you are back to full fitness soon, Caroline, don't work too hard and be sure to take those tablets.. I have actually put a reminder on my phone to give a big klaxon sound at 9.30 every night to remind me to take mine.

Christine xx
 

Who hoo...and we're done!  Well the intense treatments anyway.

Am resembling a Robin if they also had red armpits and am tired quite a bit of the time but otherwise all jolly good and will be celebrating with a bottle of meths and a pizza later.  The boyfriend is glad its all done & dusted and is treating me to a new handbag..happy days!  Just wish I could go out with pals & celebrate, but will do twice as much when I can.

Had a mixed week so managed a long walk Tuesday (had to almost crawl back after my hours energy was spent!) and bike ride yesterday (aching bum getting better).

Today would have been a fab day was it not for the more gormless of the cats who caught a baby blue *** earlier..little s**t!  I know its their nature but they're usually so fat & lazy that they can't be bothered other than watching the small wildlife, and they have 2 bells on each!  I think it must have wandered into his mouth while he was snoozing (well thats what I'm telling myself).

Caroline - your check up sounds distinctly lacking re any useful info that you didn't know already! I suspect that your nurse was however still  able to put a big tick in the relevant box and move on...

I wonder is the 3 yrs of open access standard?  And what exactly does open access mean - is it just more of the useless 5 minute discussions?  Also what will she be discharging you from?  Is it returning you to the care of just your GP?

Hope your work isn't too hectic, I know I will be taking it very easy as & when I go back but luckily working in retail that won't be an issue.

Christine - yes I'll be interested to see what happens re my 6 month follow up come September, it may that with things being more 'normal' then that it may be worth my making the effort for...we'll see.  

I would have thought that as we've had full mx then there's nowt to check for re lumps (think Caroline had part removed rather than full) as we have no breast tissue?

Bad news re headaches re letrozole, I find that its the mornings when I get out of bed and getting up when I've been sat for a while that are the killers, I'm hoping that there's no more side effects to come and that if anything they will subside if anything.

Good to hear knee is behaving (and about time too!), I wonder (and am obviously not a physio) but would it help your lower back if you pull your stomach in whilst doing exercises ( I know this as every time I do an on-line exercise class the instructor nags me about it to protect my lower back)??  

Really glad your painting was so well received, nice to put smiles on faces.

On my never ending mission of avoiding making cushions I've now invested in a 1000 piece jigsaw..the saga continues..

Ah so you're a 9.30'er - I'm a 7.20'er - and I have no idea why although I am becoming very adept at hearing the alarm, switching off the alarm and then thinking 2 hrs later 'did I take the letrozole?' So have actually had to write the days of the week on the packet so I can double check...it would of course be an obvious solution to just get off my fat bum and actually take the bl00dy tablet when reminded to do so but practice is somewhat different to theory.

Right, no rest for the (VERY) wicked...off to town now to buy my comestibles for celebratory dinner and have a vitamin run on Boots then may try the MacMillan exercise DVD that my lovely physio sent me.  I haven't been out to a supermarket since rads started, it will be interesting (??) to see how cv prevention has improved (ha!).

Hope you're both good and have something celebratory on my behalf too (Christine - am expecting you to have at least a shot of paint thinner!!)

Sam X

Hi Sam and Christine,

Sam! Fantastic news!! It must feel like this has been an endless journey but now you have finally reached the finish line and truly deserve your pizza and meths!! :silly: I will take great pleasure in having a drink to celebrate with you!!! Just be aware that the tiredness/sore skin may continue to worsen for a few weeks, before you start to feel more normal again. But Brilliant, fantastic news.

Re the open access - not to sure if standard but I think it generally means if you are worried about new symptoms or anything breast related, you just call the breast unit rather than have to go through your GP. And I suppose they will be discharging me from this episode of cancer.

Christine, your poor aches and pains!!! But you are both doing more exercise than me!!! I did tell my surgeon, during my check up, that I walk the dog but I wouldn't  really class that as exercise. Your amazing painting must have been a real sense of wonderment for your neighbour. And I'm sure that it was the shock and grief that meant he took a couple of days to thank you. What a wonderful gift you have.

I received a letter from my surgeon, summarising my 6 month check up, phone conversation. Reiterating the importance of exercise and maintaining a healthy weight. She has booked me an appointment to see her on the 2nd December. I also have a mammogram booked on the 7th October. She did also send me an information booklet of things to keep an eye out for, which is quite scary reading as I know from experience that most of the symptoms on there are a sign of secondary cancer!! But my aim is to just check for lumps and bumps and not worry too much about aches and pains. 
My husband has decided to put some of my critical illness money to good use and has bought an air con unit to go in our bedroom!! The thought of having to sleep with the window open (he's terrified of spiders) and next to a sweaty person for the next 10 years pushed him over the edge! I have to say I'm quite excited about it!! 
Work is calmer at the moment and today - being my day off, has me sat in the garden, reading a book! Bliss!! Housework can wait till tomorrow when the weather isn't predicted to be good. 
Enjoy your Bank holiday weekend and let's hope the weather stays kind.

Caroline xx

Hi girls,

Sam, paint stripper didn't do it, but my daughter and I sat at distance in her garden and shared a can of Strongbow, and raised our glasses to the end of your treatment. Now all we can do is to hope that we are all now free of our unwanted guest for the foreseeable future!

I believe the mammogram I'm booked for in September is for the other breast, to make sure there is no recurrence in there. If there is, and I have to go through the nuisance of mastectomy again I will definitely want to crown my surgeon! I all but offered to pay him to do them both at the same time!

I suppose we will have to keep an eye on things in the future, but I honestly can't imagine myself worrying about it coming back, either another primary in the second breast, or secondaries elsewhere.  What I do foresee is my saying "F*** this" and stopping the Letrozole if I get too many pains.  I am aware that the side effects can appear further down the line, Chriss has written about the aromatase inhibitor she was on destroying her bones, I'm not having any of that!  I'll take my chances and deal with the future in the same way I've dealt with it up to now.  "If you can fix it, get on with it, if you can't, just keep me pain free!"  
 

It hasn't got to that yet, a few headaches and achy bones are not going to get me down,  I'm hoping this beautiful early Spring will be followed by an equally beautiful Summer and I have still more than a thousand ebooks to read in the garden. If, as I fear, we get the usual wet season I will stay indoors and paint!

it feels like we have come to the end of our journey together, now you have finished the worst of your treatments, Sam.  I suspect we will not be posting on here with the same regularity now we are all getting on with the rest of our lives, but I would like to think I will still get the odd email saying "someone has commented on a thread you are following" And, needless to say, I will be reporting anything new from this end.

Have a great future! Stay safe, for Dog's sake don't go getting the dreaded Covid now, after going through your cancer adventure!

lots of love

Christine xxx

Hello ladies
All is good here, still sore and tired but hopefully at or approaching peak of post rads side effects.  So odd to think the merry go round of cancer related appointments/meetings/treatments is broadly done and dusted...I wonder how long the monthly zolodex injections will last (until my ovaries are so prune like you wouldn't believe it I reckon) and also have to start the 6 monthly bisphosphonates...chasing that tomorrow when have next zolodex.

I've been (surprisingly for me) reflecting back as things pretty much draw to a close and I consider myself "lucky" in that due to CV there isn't a "normal" life to be thrust back into so certainly don't feel pressured to do so.  I am going to take a month to fully recover, have some me-time and clean what is a disgustingly mucky house! The latter may well take all month actually...
So I'll start thinking about work return, the old routines and arranging celebrations with pals (though do wish this one could be bought forward) after MY month.

I'm definitely more emotional, particularly when I reflect how much friends & family really rose to the occasion (despite the distance for a lot of them) to provide whatever support they could, sending me lots of gifts and rude cards as well as all the laughs emanating from the whatsapp group I set up at the beginning to keep everybody updated, chucked everybody off the latter Saturday night...my sister commented that it was like watching Annie slowly drop into the molten metal in terminator as 1 by 1 friends & family were removed..ha! And thinking about the support, sharing and welcome I got on-line in these forums makes me quite happy in a teary kind of way too (thanks to you both for this, its really much appreciated)...its really important. Bloody hormone tablets...giving me emotions!!

I do understand it is very personal but I am not concerned about recurrence, I do think I'm well in the minority here (and Christine is too) and am odd in this and many other respects too (what was I saying about Christine?? Ha!).
 

Caroline - hope your cancer funded air con is being put to good use, I've had my bedroom windows fully open for last 2 weeks (they're sash so can let a lot of air in and are broken so once they're open it need 2 armed strength to shut again!) which has been very welcome and will be vvv jealous of you when we get the 30+ degree days later on (thanks global warming).  

My equivalent of your post treatment "gift" is (or will be) a handbag from the lovely boyfriend. As need to touch & feel such purchases will need to wait till retail is up & running but its not like the new arm candy is missing any fabby nights out is it? I do hope the hospital & supermarket appreciate the boyfriend's investment/help to the economy.

Good work is calm, lets hope it stays that way eh?  Love a good book, just started reading one about mudlarking on the Thames, not my usual choice but fascinating and highly recommended (think in my old age am getting interested in things that I should like history & stuff...makes a change from serial murder/crime fiction!).

Christine - hope your headaches have subsided and achy bones are more behaving themselves, as well as those naughty knees of course!  I bet you're spending quite a few hours outside eh?  I'm in the garden a bit but the whole palaver of sun cream, sun brolly etc combined with a right hand side that still isn't where it should be means am often indoors...and probably better as am bra free! I do like my neighbours and don't want to terrify them too much.

Don't worry re CV, think that would be a breeze compared to cancer!  But will still be careful...promise!! Mainly as the boyfriend is still convinced it will kill him (100% hypochondriac)...and I'd be sort of guilty if I killed him that way, plus can think up so many better ways to despatch of him...

So next "meeting" is the open access follow up one mid Sept (my expectations are low!).

Wish my body would hurry up and heal...there's window boxes and hanging baskets that are not going to plant themselves!

Hope you're both doing well and I will be in touch....I'll let you know when the cushions are finished (!!).

Thanks again to you both!

Sam X

Caroline

Just so you get notified re my most recent post!

Sam X

Ladies,

I just want to say, we are damn tough cookies who have whipped cancers ***!! I too, have loved your support, hearing your tales of what you have been up to in your life and journeys. 
Now it is onward and upwards!! Keep enjoying life, doing the things you enjoy and look after yourselves. 
Sam, take it easy. Good to hear you are taking a month to recover and clean (!!) and getting a lovely new handbag - can never have too many bags or shoes.

Christine, keep your painting going, watch the hearing aids don't get left near the dog!! I hope your aches and pains ease and you are enjoying your garden/neighbours and family (still makes me smile how they wouldn't let you do anything!)

You will be pleased to know that my air con is amazing but poor hubby usually wakes up freezing. I turn it on before we go to bed, to cool the room down, then switch it off. But I've had to set the timer so it comes on around 1:30am as my hot sweats seem to be starting earlier! Oh how I crave a decent nights sleep! 
Please do stay in touch!! I already miss seeing your messages!! Enjoy the summer, let's hope CV doesn't scupper too much. 
Much love

Caroline xx

Hi girls, Yorkshire_defector1 and cazrosie 

Nice to hear how you are both doing as we approach normal life post cancer, shame about the normality being a bit cockeyed because of Covid19. 

I am glad you are apparently recovering well from the rads, Sam, I hope being emotional isn't too hard for you, it seems to be a common result of taking all the hormones. I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to feel a bit more emotional than usual after what you have experienced over the last months. Note I said experienced, not suffered, because as you say, some things have been lovely, like the support you had from your family and friends, so it hasn't all been bad.  Let me know how you go on with the Bisphosphonates, I've refused them so far.  I'm not worried about the Covid, but I'm again the victim of my children's fears, so I won't be going anywhere soon, even if lockdown is easing.  Actually, there was something in the news recently saying the R rate is increasing here in the North West, so I will stay put until it is really safe to go out and about.

Caroline,  there is nothing cosier than being wrapped up warm in a room that is cooled by an air conditioner. We had them for many years when living abroad and my daughter has them in her living room and bedroom.  I would have welcomed one over the last week or two but I had to make do with an open window and a fan. 

I'm glad to say my headaches and other aches and pains seem to be in remission for now.  I am like a different person when I'm pain free. I happened to say to my daughter a week or so ago, that I'd forgotten to tell her my headaches had eased, but she said she knew. When I asked how, she said because I'd stopped moaning about them! The knees are doing well, too. I am walking without pain because of the exercises, and it's nice to be able to take Archie out more than once a day, now, although the pain still comes and bites me sometimes at night. If it is bad enough,  I get up and take a pill but usually I'm too lazy to get up and fall asleep again.

I am being very good about locking the hearing aids away when I take them out, so Archie can't get them, no accidents, yet, although I have been known to forget which of the four boxes I put them in, as I go from room to room searching for them!

I am still painting, Caroline, I have done a colourful landscape with heeland coo, (highland cow) in acrylics this week. It only took a couple of days because the paints dry so quickly.  I suspect it is one I'm going to lose to my daughter because she never usually says much about my paintings, but the ones she does comment on usually end up at her house and when I showed it to her on FaceTime this morning she was very complimentary about it.  I have finally succumbed to the pleasure of listening to an audio book while I do my painting. It's great not having to choose between my two favourite pastimes. I listened to The Brightest Star in the Sky, by Marian Keyes, a hilariously funny book with the strangest of plots! The narrator was excellent, which is very important.  I have abandoned a few audio books because the narration was not to my taste.

I have an appointment booked for next month at the breast clinic, presumably, the delayed six month checkup, so I will definitely report to you both when (if) it happens.

Stay safe, stay healthy and stay happy!

Love

Christine xxx

HI y'all

its so nice to read such positive comments from this wonderful tribe of people, I couldn't help but respond to your message as like you I am recently diagnosed with bowel cancer - not very glamerous!!  

I sense that for many of us sharing our circumstances, diagnoisis and tips is a great way to feel more in control and simply knowing you are not alone can be so uplifting and stop some of those negative vibes getting a hold.  

I would pay good money to see Hugh Grant, older, grayer with his specs on his nose playing the wine waiter!!

I wish all a great evening and keep posting

fx

Hi Fran,

Glad you like our positivity! It's the only way to go.  The worst time, I think, is before treatment when your brain won't stop drifting to worse case scenarios.  I've just read your other posts and you sound just like we were at that stage,  if you read any of our messages to each other in the beginning, it was a lovely way for us to be positive, talking to people in the same situation, who weren't into doom and gloom. 
Luckily, you haven't got too long to wait until the little so and so is gone!  I know so many people who are living their lives fully and healthily, having had their cancer removed at the earliest stage. It's amazing how quickly life gets back to normal after recovering from the surgery.
 

Sorry about your arthritis, I have osteoarthritis, not as bad as rheumatoid, I know, but I could do without it. Hopefully, you'll get your PIP sorted.  I'm an old dear, so I just get my pension and glad, too. The only way I will be entitled to anything extra will be when I'm on my last legs, so I'll happily do without it.

Sadly as you have probably seen, one of our trio is back to the waiting and worrying stage. I'm sure that whatever the tests show, she will take it in her stride and will keep smiling. 

Good luck for the 13th (just had to check it wasn't a Friday) Phew!

Hugh Grant hasn't aged well, I fear. 

love

Christine xx

Hi Fran,

Glad you like our positivity! It's the only way to go.  The worst time, I think, is before treatment when your brain won't stop drifting to worse case scenarios.  I've just read your other posts and you sound just like we were at that stage,  if you read any of our messages to each other in the beginning, it was a lovely way for us to be positive, talking to people in the same situation, who weren't into doom and gloom. 
Luckily, you haven't got too long to wait until the little so and so is gone!  I know so many people who are living their lives fully and healthily, having had their cancer removed at the earliest stage. It's amazing how quickly life gets back to normal after recovering from the surgery.
 

Sorry about your arthritis, I have osteoarthritis, not as bad as rheumatoid, I know, but I could do without it. Hopefully, you'll get your PIP sorted.  I'm an old dear, so I just get my pension and glad, too. The only way I will be entitled to anything extra will be when I'm on my last legs, so I'll happily do without it.

Sadly as you have probably seen, one of our trio is back to the waiting and worrying stage. I'm sure that whatever the tests show, she will take it in her stride and will keep smiling. 

Good luck for the 13th (just had to check it wasn't a Friday) Phew!

Hugh Grant hasn't aged well, I fear. 

love

Christine xx

Morning all

Hope hospital visit is bearable Caroline and you're bearing up.  Are you taking it easy otherwise as you do seem to have quite hectic family/work commitments? Though we're close we are not wonder woman....

Hi Fran, glad you've enjoyed our ramblings....they help and entertain us, a win-win in my book, and if they help others then maybe that's a win-win-win?

Christine, that blummin Shakespeare was SUCH hard work and wasn't technically at the globe, probably best it was the Sam wannamaker playhouse as it was a bit nippy.....the bard is deffo not for this philistine! But an experience none the less.

Xx

Hi ladies, so ultrasound went well! She couldn't find anything that looked sinister. She said the lumps were muscle :laugh: so I am blaming my arm workouts at the gym! So that was a massive relief! CT on Thursday then hopefully results and positive so I can slip back into normal life!! 
Love you guys - your messages have perked me up, as usual! 
Caroline x

Whoopeee!!!  Can't wait to hear Thursday. I am up early today as I am going on a silent protest at our health trust headquarters to protest at them taking the contract off our  current wonderful health centre team and giving it to a multi centre company!  Our doctor says she won't stay if they go ahead and we don't want to lose her.  It feels like I'm back to my student days!  I'm always up for a good protest !

Excellent news Caroline...get you and your guns! Those workouts must be quite punishing. Still got one finger crossed re CT scan, I wonder whether that will show that you're good for the next Olympics eh?

Go Christine! Good cause and all that though if I was protesting Im not sure I'd be able to remain quiet,it does take quite alot of effort at the best of times:happy: (that is meant to be a happy face but looks decidedly odd as I type). Right bike ride time... whoopee.

xx

Hi Sam and Caroline,

Our silent protest turned out to be anything but silent.  Every time a possible member of the board arrived suited and booted for the meeting, some idiot man with a loud voice would start shouting "Save *** Health Centre, and everyone else joined in!  We hovered around for about an hour, not  really with any plan, because our leaders had gone in to the meeting, which was supposed to go on for three hours.  However, one of those people came out and said as our item was not on the public agenda in the morning, but would be held in private in the afternoon, they had left but the chair of the board had made some conciliatory comments that had given them some hope.  We sort of drifted away in dribs and drabs then and I haven't heard anything since.   I must have a look at their social media pages to see what's happening.

Caroline, hope you're ok.

Lots of love

 Christine xx

Hi Christine & Sam,

I have chuckled at your messages about being a protestor, Christine. Well done you for standing up for what you believe in!

I'm doing ok. Scans/tests all done, now we wait! My theory is the longer I don't hear, the more likely it's nothing sinister. Feel like the ostrich who wants to bury their head in the sand. Feeling positive most of the time. Reckon I'll have to wait a couple of weeks, at least. 
Thank you both, for checking in I really do appreciate it. Will let you know when I hear anything. I'm sure all will be fine. 
Caroline 

Morning!

When I started reading your note Christine I was immediately envisaging the police carrying you off from the front line of a protest, Greta Thunberg style...not sure whether it was good it turned a bit noisy? I think these things are emotional so difficult for some to keep in check (I'm in that group).  Hope that you get what you want to benefit your community.

Caroline

Hope the wait is a bit more palatable now you know you're a champion weight lifter and yep your logic I share re the fact that you wouldn't wait if there were bad news. I've started having more uncomfortable under arm 'pain' as the nerves apparently can start mending themselves...well thanks nerves!  Nothing to write home about but does mean I need to stick my hand/arm in the air more often, doesn't bother me but can cause a lot of confusion in others (something I relish anyway).

All good here, had a trip at weekend to see what they'd done to battersea power station (love an old building) and despite it being surrounded by hideous flats its very good, great shops and food places inside and the control room still has all the knobs, bells and whistles and is a cocktail bar...I mean who could ask for more eh?  Worth a trip if you're ever in these dodgy southern parts.  So that's another mission completed on my extensive London bucket list pre Yorkshire move.

Have a good week ladies X

Ladies, just a quick message before i traipse off on a dog walk. My CT scan came back clear! No cancer in my lungs, liver or stomach! So not sure what the problem was! Stress maybe?! My weight loss (unfortunately :wink: has steadied out) and my breathing isn't as bad. Maybe I'd caught Covid a while ago and wasn't aware?! 
Anyway, I am over the moon and now off to enjoy my day/life!!

Love you you all 

Caroline xx

Hooray!  
I am delighted to hear this good news. And I'm sure I can speak for Sam, too!  Obviously Hawaii wasn't the place for you! :laugh: 
Lesson to learn, no stressing!  Having said that, I'm pretty sure I wasn't half so laid back when I still had family responsibilities and work, too! Sad about the weight loss - similar to me when I first started on the Letrozole, first six weeks, adjustment, a bit of nausea and lovely weight loss.  Subsequently - nausea gone, good! Weight loss stopped, not so good! Still better to be fat, happy and healthy than thin and sick! Actually I can't say I'm fat, just a few pounds heavier than I would like but too lazy to do anything about it. 

At least we all got to catch up!  Next time without the worry, I hope.  I actually inserted an emoji on that top line that has changed to the word laugh.  I'm wondering now, what will appear when I post this!

Lots of love

Christine xx

Ahh, the emoji came up, I'll have to remember that next time I need to explain my feelings in pictures!

Woohoo!!

Now thats over can I suggest a book or dvd re your weight loss :laugh:

And deffo crack on with that life!

I've my last cancer treatment next week,. No more zolodex or bisphosphonate.... coincidentally the last one is the first anniversary of my father's death...make of that what you will !

love to both xx