Hi Orangelime. Welcome to the forum.

I'm not a doctor nor am I an expert on asbestos. However, this question pops up regularly on this forum. 

The asbestos in Artex was Chrysotile, or white asbestos, and it made up about 2% of the mix. Whilst white asbestos cannot be called "safe", it is definitely the least hazardous form.  Furthermore the body will naturally clear out a small number of white asbestos fibres over time.  The low concentration of asbestos means that the number of fibres released will be quite low if you cut or drill it, with many fibres remaining trapped in the other 98% of material that fell to the floor and got swept up. 

You asked about the risk to your family.  Perhaps not surprisingly, there are no figures for the number of people who have died due to exposure to asbestos in decorative products.  However in 2016 there were 2,197 male deaths and 398 female deaths from mesothelioma. I hate to use gender stereotyping, but I suspect that few of those women were exposed at work, which means they must have been exposed to asbestos elsewhere. In the home, perhaps?  Now 398 sounds a lot, but to put it in context, 3500 people die in the home each year from simple accidents; 1800 die each year in road accidents; 1500 die from accidental poisoning; 1500 die each year from falling in the home; 5-10 die each year putting on their socks.  

So, although you're kicking yourself that you disturbed the material, you have done what most other householders (including me!) have done at some time - disturbed the Artex in the ceiling and possibly breathed in the fibres. But the extra risk to your family appears to be minimal and definitely nothing to panic about. It most certainly isn't a death warrant that will be hanging over everyone's head for years to come. You're getting expert advice on what to do next, but maybe sealing the damaged areas and being more asbestos aware is all that you'll need to do. Almost certainly removing the Artex would be more dangerous than leaving it in place and keeping it properly sealed. 

I'll also add one further point. Smoking and asbestos are a lethal combination. If you or any of your family are smokers, then now might be a good time to quit. 

So I guess the take home message is Don't Panic. 

Thank you for this. Really appreciate you replying. I do feel reassured now! 

Thanks for your post, really do appreciate you taking the time to reply, I am finding it very helpfully and so will others who like me were pointed to this thread, sure many people have a diy asbestos disaster and look for re-assurance.

I have read a lot of scientific studies now, was another long night as trying just to get all the facts straight so can assess risk and try and move on.  Seems dangerous speaking to people at asbestos companies as assumed they would be the ones trying to cause concern but actually was the opposite and both took time out to discuss at length, the problem was some of what they said was actually wrong.

From everything I have read across multiple studies the risk of asbestosis is directly linked to exposure and the figures you posted in your earlier reply are correct and that generally you need some level of occupational exposure, there are of course always outliers who seem to get it at lower levels but on the whole that is not the case.

The other thing that is said a lot and was said by both asbestos companies is that I had the best asebtos in that it was white / chrysotile, from everything I read there is no such thing as good asbestos.  Whilst it is definitely more stable when you cut is with power tools or drill into it the fibres that are released are dangerous.  The other types blue/brown are more easily released but once white is released it does carry danger.  It does have some advantage in that the fibres are curly and don't as easily get into lungs but they can depending on fibre size and are likely to be as dangerous as the others.

I have tried to re-assure my self by reading multiple studies and it is somewhat re-assuring that the studies always seem to quote peiople working in asbestos industries or their partners, there are very few studies on low level non occupational/one off expsoures.

This is where the worry comes in and won't go for me as it is well accpeted that when is comes to cancer / mesothelioma there is no acceptable threshold like there seems to be for asbestosis.  This is an excellent summary of many studies 

The worrying study in there that seems to be one of only a few on non-occupational quoted in there is:

'Exposure to asbestos was studied among 229 malignant mesothelioma patients identified from the Australian Mesothelioma Registry and diagnosed between 2010 and 2012. For 70, no occupational exposure was discovered; these included 37 who had performed a major renovation of their housing with asbestos-containing materials, 35 who had lived in a house during a renovation with asbestos-containing materials, 19 who had lived in a house built of fibro (asbestos cement sheet), 19 who had lived with someone working in an asbestos-exposed job, 12 who had performed brake/clutch work (nonprofessionally), 10 who had visited Wittenoom (the western Australian city CHRYSOTILE ASBESTOS / 31 with a crocidolite mine) and 8 who lived in the vicinity of an asbestos mine or asbestos products factory (total does not add to 70 because a number of participants were counted in more than one category)'

The last bracketed bit is relevant as some of those who did renovations also did other risk factors but not all, that means there were some who simply did a renovation project with no known other exposures, I have read the full report on that one and they were given a detailed questionaire.

So it seems that for mesothelioma there is no threshold, now realistically there must be otherwise everyone would be dropping dead of it as sure many people have done some level of diy involving asbestos and also fibres occur naturally.

I wish the last bit wasn't true as everything else I have read indicates some low level one-off type exposure is very low risk to be almost negligible but in terms of mesothelioma that may not be the case - I am not trying to worry people here and also happy to be corrected but have read a number of studies that quote that conclusion.

So where am I with all of this, I can't imagine that I got away with no fibres landing on me given the jig sawing of the cement board albeit up high and at distance and the subsequent dropping and breaking of the board in nearby dump truck.  I have no way of knowing how many and also no way of knowing if any came off over the course of driving to get it tested and wandering around the rest of the day before collectin the kids and putting them to bed.  I will never understand why it didn't occur to me to change but at the time was unaware of the secondary clothing risk.  I also have no way of knowing if when kids hugged me at school pick up or when climbing over me later andy trapped fibres released and breathed in, now gven there is no threshold it still worries me to death and honestly I can't seem to move on.

I am not going to do anymore reading of studies as pretty sure have all the facts.  I just can't get over that I have put the kids at risk, everytime I see them I almost breakdown, I appreciate this is not healthy and there is a chance that worrying over nothing but for me there is a chance and I can't seem to get over that, I have read on cbt and mindfulness, strategies, etc but just can't see how that is going to change the facts or the worry that I have exposed them to carciogenic fibres.  Now I understand there is some background levels and they might also have been exposed at school or by walking past other renovations.

Apologies for another long rambling post and appreciate could well be irrational but when it comes to kids health just seems to switch a lever of worry.  I also appreciate post could be annoying to others as guess other people who are reading this thread are likely to have been exposed more than I have, I am really struggling with this one and everyone speak to say just need to move on but don't seem able to.

Lawrence

Regarding the "that means there were some who simply did a renovation project with no known other exposures," - yes, but a lot of old houses had boilers insulated with blue asbestos.  Ripping off that insulation generates I believe somewhere like 1000 f/ml, and those fibres are 500 times more dangerous than white asbestos (the relative potency has been assessed as 1:100:500 - white:brown:blue).   Also, I think it was used in both loft insulation and cavity insulation, in a form that was really easy to get airborne.

Now, the following was told to me over the phone by an NHS professor, specialising in occupational and environmental respiratory disease.  It's not just something I read on the internet:  Whilst the risk of asbestos-related illness generally requires "many years of industrial exposure", the exception to this is mesothilioma.  HOWEVER - the studies have shown that you DO still need a significant exposure, and in this context, "significant" has been determined to be 3 months solid of breathing in BLUE asbestos fibres for 8 hours a day.

Now (this is from my own logic) consider the potency ratios - that translates to 3 x 500 = 1500 months of breathing in white asbestos fibres 8 hours a day.  1500 months is 125 years, so in the same order of magnitude of the other calculation that says you'd have to scrape artex ceilings and breath in all the fibres continuously for 250 years.

So to summarise I would say that although in theory you could argue you have subjected your kids to some risk, that risk is absolutely insignificant and certainly far less than the risk you subject them to anyway in normal daily life.  You could have a car crash when you take them out in the car.  A fire could start from a faulty plug socket in their bedroom.  They could trip at the top of the stairs and fall down and break their neck.

Obviously the WHO is going to say there is no safe level, in the same way that the NHS would say there is no safe level of smoking - doesn't mean you will get lung cancer if you smoke one cigarette.  Likewise, there is no safe level of driving - it is impossible to get in your car and drive anywhere with zero risk.  There is always some risk, however small.  The point is that driving (for most people) in unavoidable, so you tolerate the risk.  The NHS would see smoking as avoidable, so why take any risk at all?  The WHO say the same for asbestos - where it's avoidable, they aim to avoid it.  Notice that the air in cities is full of asbestos fibres from car brake pads - notice that the WHO don't recommend everyone walks round cities wearing breathing apparatus.

Does that make sense?

Thanks again for taking the time to reply with an excellent post, really is helpful for some one elses view / perspective / research.

Interesting on the ratios, not seen that bfeore and googling that does offer some reassurance.  Also been reading what is considered a safe level of an air test in a house cleared of asbestos and if you multiply up that over size of room there could be a lot of fibres left and conclusion from what I was reading was saying if that level could kill the figures would be much greater.  

I think the published stuff that says no threshold for mesothilioma is unhelpful as clearly there must be some sort of level given asbestos is in the air, not 100% sure on the 3 months of blue asbestos as on another forum there were caes of people who had it with very small exposures.  

I must confess I am completely confused over the measurements as when you read safe level is 0.01 fm/l and I believe I am correct in saying this equates to 1 million fibres in a cubic metre which sounds far worse.   What I can't work out and would appreciate some help is where jig sawing is listed as 2-10 fm/l (worse case 10 million fibres per square metre I presume) over what duration is that ?  Say for example the jigsaw was on for 1 minute how many fibres is that releasing ?  It would help me visualise and probably scare me half to death how many fibres that released.

You are right in that there is risk in everything just devastated I introduced an unnecessary risk as I am sure most people on this forum looking for reassurance.

Many thanks,

Lawrence

Hi Jak99,

Thank you so much for explaining the issues rationally. I have sent you a friend request. Could I get your opinion about my past renovation work and asbestos exposure. Your opinion would be much appreciated. 

Hi - happy to help if I can but please bear in mind I'm no expert - I only know what I know from speaking to a couple of experts.  A couple of weeks ago I knew nothing about all this stuff!

Hi.

I have posted on another section and then came across this discussion.

I am having a bit of a panic.

My grandparents had a leak from their water tank through the sitting room ceiling about 20 years ago. They left the damaged corner and never bothered getting it repaired. Turns out the ceiling has asbestos in it and their was asbestos insulation up around the tank.

I'm now having a complete panic attack as I have been going to see them for a couple of hours every weekend and taking my kids.

My eldest is 8 and I have a 4 year old and 2 year old. I am making myself feel sick thinking they have spent 2 hours a week for years in a room with damaged asbestos.

I don't want to take them until everything is fixed as now I know about it I don't want them near it. My husband thinks I'm over reacting and because it's been like that for 20 years and any fibres that were going to come off would have done so long ago.

Should I talk to a doctor about my worries for my kids? Am I completely over reacting?

Thank you for taking the time to read this. 

Hi

I have just come across this post having had quite a lot of anxiety around asbestos. We have recently been told that we have artex tiles on our extension (our house is Victorian not sure about the extension ) we have lived in the house for a few years. We are looking to get these replaced. However it has set off anxiety about artex as we have artex on 3 of our ceilings, and last year we drilled a hole into what I thought was textured paper in a cupboard but it's not having looked again.

Having read through this chat can I say this has eased my mind a bit and is it best to just fill the holes in, paint and move in from stressing about it given what you have said in your previous post about the risk being low?

thanks

Hi

I have just come across this post having had quite a lot of anxiety around asbestos. We have recently been told that we have artex tiles on our extension (our house is Victorian not sure about the extension ) we have lived in the house for a few years. We are looking to get these replaced. However it has set off anxiety about artex as we have artex on 3 of our ceilings, and last year we drilled a hole into what I thought was textured paper in a cupboard but it's not having looked again.

Having read through this chat can I say this has eased my mind a bit and is it best to just fill the holes in, paint and move in from stressing about it given what you have said in your previous post about the risk being low?

would you be able to pass the information on that you received?

thanks

@Jak99 - Thanks for posting the in-depth information you gathered on artex/asbestos. I'm sure a lot of people find themselves worried about this exact scenario and your post will go a long way to easing their anxiety - it definitely did for me.

I can't really buy you a drink to say thanks, so I've made a donation on your behalf to Cancer Research instead.

Many thanks
Aaron

Hi Aaron

Really pleased to hear the info we found out is helping other people as well as us.

That's a really kind gesture to make a donation to Cancer Research - great idea!

Many thanks and all the best.

Jack

Hi Aaron

Really pleased to hear the info we found out is helping other people as well as us.

That's a really kind gesture to make a donation to Cancer Research - great idea!

Many thanks and all the best.

Jack

Hi 

I have found this really reassuring I came home to find dinning room ceiling down and panicked cleaning up the mess and also cutting old plaster board to tidy up edge. 

I didn't realise plasterboard was also a risk, do you have any info on the risk from plaster board?

Thanks,

Martin 

Hi Martin,

This risk of asbestos within plasterboard is extremely rare. More common boards which contain asbestos would be insulating board and cement paneling. However, the only way to be sure is to get it tested and analysed.

Regards,

Chris - Asbestos Expert.

Hi, I just wondered if anyone could help?

There has been a lot of useful info on this thread but I've gotten myself in a complete state of panic after a lot of Google research. 

We live a house that was built in 1995. About 6/7 years ago we had a flood in our loft from the boiler. One of the plumbers that came to fix it ended up putting his foot through the ceiling that is in my little ones built in wardrobe. All the ceilinging upstairs have artex on them. Therefore he had a big hole in his ceiling and a lot of the artex came down going all over his clothes and all in the wardrobe.

We still haven't sorted this out, just put a board over it in the loft. I've only just found out that there is a possibility that the ceilings could contain asbestos. He still has the hole and the artex his hanging off. 

We have sent off for a kit to test it but I'm beyond panicking that my child has been sleeping in a room for all of these years and also had clothing that could have had fibers on it. I can't remember if I washed them at the time. 

I've moved him out of the room until the test is done but I'm so worried it's too little too late. 

Does anyone know the likely hood that the artex will contain aspestos. It's a David Wilson Homes house built in 1995.

Any help or advice with be greatly, greatly appreciated. 

Thanks! 

Hi,

Asbestos in Artex was phased out throughout the 90s and finaly completely banned in 2000, however, its impossible to tell if asbestos is present without having it analysed. But the asbestos risk in artex is very low. You'd be shocked where you find asbestos its in 1000s of products, artex ceilings is extremely low risk compared to most. But in all honesty, I'd b surprised if there was positive artex in a DW build, generally the big companies starting phasing everything out on the first ban in 1985.

Moving forward in future renovations, I'd highly recommend that you have an asbestos survey done prior to works taking place, during a survey an expert will go through your property and inspect all areas what could be disturbed and ensure no asbestos is present. Some of the things what tradesmen have done are very shocking as they have little to no asbestos experience.

Regards,

Chris- Asbestos expert 

Hello there

Just saw your post and wondered if you can help please.

I am a bit worried about asbetos. Our house was build in 2004 and in 2014 we had a build extension on ground floor, just extra room. The work took around 5-6 months and we were living in the house. Potentioally breathing the dust. Now it made me worried that our house containes asbestos and we were breathing the dust for 6 months. 

Thank you for you help

Hi Jk,

Asbestos was fully banned in the UK in the year 2000, so any builds post 2000 won't contain asbestos.

Regards, 

Chris - Asbestos Expert

thank you so much for your answer.

Just also wondering I buy lots of clothes for myself and children second hand like charity shop etc. Do you think that there is a chance these clothes could have ever some asbestos on them as I really dont know which home are they coming from. 

Many thanks

Hi there Chris. Just wondering if you could help as I’m having real asbestos anxiety. 

When we bought the house, the homebuyers survey said there was asbestos tiles on the ceiling. We then contacted a surveyor who confirmed that it was asbestos but couldn’t see anywhere else visually that could be asbestos. we changed the ceiling before we moved in.

But I only read something about asbestos over the weekend and am stressing myself out now. All this after a new loft has been put in and walls knocked over.

I called an asbestos surveyor who instilled the fear of god in me … a 1935 property could contain asbestos in plaster etc “You should have done a full renovation and demolition survey.”

So here I am completely freaked out that I’ve had the children living in a house as asbestos was flying around!

Here are the details
- house built in 1935
- owned by same owner until 1997. Quite miserly from what we’ve heard and didn’t spend so wouldn’t have put in extra bits in between.
- next owner put in a conservatory but that’s it
- no Artex, can’t see any boards
- ceiling looks like lath and plaster (I can see strands of brown hair)
- walls were cinder blocks
- both walls and ceiling were “layers” of plaster if I’m describing it right. So cinder block/brown plaster/white plaster or wooden slats / light brown plaster : white plaster

Builder says he hasn’t come across asbestos in the build. But can he really tell that?

I just need some rational thought please. Do I need to change carpets in the house? Do I need ti throw out all my clothes?