Is treatment really patient focused and individual?

Hello all, 

I was diagnosed with breast cancer, spread to the lymph nodes (grade 2, if my understanding is correct this indicates the spread of the cancer. Not the stage, because here they do not give stages) in January last year, from a CT scan for a different health issues. 

I had a lumpectomy and lymph node removal  in April last year  and intense Radiotherapy in July last year.  

I'm a pragmatic person. I do not like sugary sentiments or beating around the bush.  

I want the facts, however ugly they are so I can make informed decisions and I want all the facts not a drip drip system, which is infuriating.

It has been a frustrating, confusing and infuriating process so far.

Not least because clinicians and other cancer professionals think they know what is best for me, how I am feeling, how much pain i am in,  and what I really aught to know, how much, and when. 

I have Ehlers Danlos syndrome (EDS) and although cancer professionals (who I've seen) know of the condition, they do not know how cancer or radiotherapy treatments affects those who have it (at the start i was informed that lumpectomy was out of the question because radiotherapy was contraindicated).  There is apparently no research.  For example: scaring, pain, tissue damage, side effects, long term issues. 

I am almost a year after the operation,  I have had two hormone therapy medications (which is to stop the production of estrogen) These side effects although there were some differences with each one they were intolerable for a day to day working life.

A third hormone was offered but, the side effects were much more serious than the last two, so my family and I (after much discussion and Internet research) decided the risks of the side effects were too great compared to the 4% reduction in the cancer returning.  

4%,  does this mean that 96% of people taking these hormone therapies have returning cancer?  It doesn't make sense to me and I cannot get a straight answer. 

If I decide to take the 3rd hormone treatment I can go back within 5 years.

Form the beginning I have said no to mammograms (they are too painful and as a consequence inconclusive). 

When i was diagnosed in January  i was badgered into trying the mammogram one  more time. So I agreed to give it one more try because I was informed things have moved on and people's attitudes had changed and there is more understanding and a patient focused individual approach is used.  

My experience was that nothing had changed.  It was excruciatingly painful, but this did not make any difference. The person insisted on one more push,  one more push because the image wasn't good enough, until I could not stand the pain any longer and stopped the procedure.  

I was then given a hand held breast ultrasound and biopsies. 

I think had I been the kind of person who breaks does in tears things may have been different. 

However,  we are back there: 

I am still dealing with the pain from the operation or radiotherapy which I'm not sure. I cannot were a bra, it is too painful. 

Mammography is definitely off the table for me. Yet I am still having to justify the reason for not having them. 

I am asked to give it one more try with Entonoxl (gas and air or laughing gas) or diazepam. 

I do not do well with medication I'm informed this is because of the EDS, medication is dispersed differently.  I have a history of intolerance and allergic reactions. 

I do not want to be drugged up to have a mammogram, or take the risk of after effects if there are any. 

There are other options: Hand Held breast screening ultrasound.  CT scan (how my breast cancer was found in January). AWBUS (Automated whole breast ultrasound). MRI  (Magnetic Resonance Imaging). 

But, they are not available to me, the reasons given are, too much radiation or images not good enough that something may be missed. 

I did not find the original cancer despite examining every few weeks.

Is treatment really patient lead and individual or are those just buzz words? 

I hear a lot about decisions concerning treatment based on age and cost.  I suspect my situation is due to my being over sixty and justify the cost. 

Although I am  pragmatic and direct,  I do have feelings,  I may not show them to people I don't know. It's upsetting and frustrating to hear professionals saying things like:  you don't need to know that yet,  we will come to that another time, I'm sure you can put up with the pain just a bit longer,  or we only have one more fight to get you to have mammograms.  

  • Welcome to Cancer Chat Sheza098, although I'm sorry for the reason you've joined us.

    It sounds like you’re navigating a lot of tough decisions at the moment, and it’s understandable that you want clear, honest, information without delays. Your frustration with the mammogram process and the side effects of hormone treatments is completely valid. The alternatives you mentioned, like handheld breast ultrasounds or MRIs, seem like reasonable options, and it’s disappointing that they aren’t being offered or fully explained to you.

    It’s tough when it feels like your voice isn’t being heard, especially when it comes to something so personal. If you haven't done so already, it may be worth getting in touch with The Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS) as they offer confidential information and advice on health-related matters. 

    We also have some information on website about how to complain about healthcare services if you feel this is something you want to pursue.

    Hopefully some of our members who have had similar experiences will be here shortly to share their stories and offer you their support and advice.

    Kind regards, 

    Steph, Cancer Chat Moderator

  • Hi Sheza,

    You say “here they do not give stages” are you in the UK or did you mean your local hospital? 
    You are right “4% reduction” doesn’t make sense, unless you know the baseline. 4% is a massive reduction if the baseline is 5%, less so if the baseline is 95%!
    The vast majority of cancer patients are over 60 and it is illegal to discriminate on the basis of age in the UK. It is highly unlikely that decisions about your care are being made because of your age.

    I hope you get the answers you need.

    Good luck!
    Dave

  • Hello Steph, 

    Thank you so much for reading my rant.

    Thank you for the reply.

    I never thought of PALS as an advice service. My understanding was they were a healthcare complaints service. Probably because when I hear of them it's due to a complaint. 

    I will try them for advice, that is very welcome advice. 

    Thank you also for your website address for how to complain.  Although i am not upto a complaint, it is useful information to have.

    Wishing you a wonderful day 

  • Hello Dave, 

    I am In the UK, and  my local hospital, as I am assuming by your reply that other hospitals in the UK give stages. 

    You are correct in that  knowing the baseline is extremely important.

    When I say 4% reduction I assume others will know the baseline was 100, given the question was do 96% have returning cancer. 

    Maybe i wasn't clear in my explanation of the percentage:  I do not understand the logic of the percentage in taking the hormone medication. 

    When this percentage information was given to us (my grown children were with me) we were informed that the statistical information sheet the oncologist (said he wasn't an expert on statistics) was consulting would be sent to me. 

    However, it never was despite asking for it on several occasions.  

    Treatment is different for older people compared to younger people. That is a fact, and is discussed at consultation. 

    So it is highly likely that treatment is based on my age and cost benefit. 

    For instance: Tomoxifen it is written has a higher risk of strokes in older people 6% compared to younger people 4% and is said to be significant ( i have read this, but i am not saying it is true just using it as an example) 

    So older people are offered alternatives to Tomoxifen to begin with (I am informed) as I was.

    Some treatments/medication are expensive and depending on your life expectancy,  decisions will be made as to cost benefit, this is fact. 

    For instance: when I turned 60 (you receive free prescription) my Dr surgery stopped prescribing my repeat medication,  saying that it was no longer prescribed on the NHS. When I questioned this I was informed that it was because I had turned 60. 

    I did have the medication reinstated, after a complaint. 

    You say it is illegal to discriminate in the UK, that is also fact, but it doesn't stop it happening and it's a long and convoluted process to prove.

    Who wants to go through that midfield. 

    As you will know its exhausting just getting through the day.  

    I do appreciate your contribution. Thank you for taking the time to reply. 

    Wishing you a wonderful day 

  • Offline in reply to Sheza098

    Hi,

    I had a different type of cancer, but I’ve never before heard of anyone with cancer in the UK not having it staged. Either by numbers or using the TNM system.
    This page explains how breast cancer is normally staged. https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/breast-cancer/stages-grades

    My comment about age discrimination was in response to “I hear a lot about decisions concerning treatment based on age and cost.  I suspect my situation is due to my being over sixty and justify the cost.” A person’s physical fitness has an impact on the treatment offered, because worst case it could kill you. We know that many older people are less fit than they were ten or twenty years ago but age itself should never be a deciding factor. Cost should certainly not be - except maybe for new million quid a go treatments that aren’t yet NICE approved. 

    In your shoes I’d be considering making a formal complaint, if only to reduce the risk of someone else being treated so shabbily by the Trust. 

    At your first appointment with your oncologist or surgeon, named cancer nurse should have been appointed to answer all these sorts of questions until you were confident and able to make informed choices. 

    I hope you get answers to all your questions.

    Best wishes
    Dave