Hi again,

Maybe I'm being over-simplistic but we've known for decades how cancer cells spread - individual cancer cells break off from the primary cancer and migrate around the body either via the blood stream or via the lymphatic system. They can be released naturally or, ironically, via surgical interventions which can sometimes do more harm than good as there is a risk that a slow growing primary can be inadvertently metastasised by the surgeon. There are papers out there which describe this at cellular and molecular level. e.g. Yoneda 1990.

How to prevent this happening is a far more difficult question. I sometimes use the metaphor that this is like trying to stop dandelions spreading in a garden. You can't stop the seeds floating across on the wind, but you can uproot the whole plant before the seeds mature, you can poison the ground to stop them taking root or you can burn all the young plants before they mature. Analogous to the cut, poison and burn cancer therapies (surgery, chemo and radiation).

Google isn't always the best option. Some other options are listed at www.jisc.ac.uk/.../ten-search-engines-for-researchers-that-go-beyond-google-11-jul-2013

Apologies if you've already tried some of these :-)

Best wishes

Dave

Hi Davek,

"You can't stop the seeds floating across on the wind, but you can uproot the whole plant before the seeds mature, you can poison the ground to stop them taking root or you can burn all the young plants before they mature. Analogous to the cut, poison and burn cancer therapies (surgery, chemo and radiation)."

I had this idea...

 How about if we put the cancer cells in indefinite state of dormancy? Instead of just killing them maybe we can just put them to "sleep" by making it a permanent "winter season" for them and overtime maybe their natural lifespan would took over and they will die out without spawning any of their mutated daughters.

I think it offer some advantages like reducing the chances of further mutation and evolution by arresting any flawed process of genetic translation and replication completely. It would also make the cancer cells more vulnerable to environmental stresses and immune actions since they are more likely unresponsive and unable to adapt in such a dormant state. It could also lead to cancer being treated as a chronic disease which will make therapeutic protocols more like preventive rather than reactive.

Of course such treatment still depend on what kind of triggering inhibitor/activator agents will be use and what are the effects they have on normal cells metabolism and functions.

Your mothers stories sounds so similar to mine. Breast cancer in 2007, lumpectomy, chemo and radio. But then I'm younger than your mom, I waited to start my family till the all clear and then had two children 2011 and 2013. Have had mammograms and been ok health wise until feeling poorly in December 2016. Went to hospital in February 2017 to get lung drained as fluid had built up. They analysed the fluid and could see ovarian cancer cells that travelled up to lung. I am waiting for a consultant appointment to start treatment. I feel so cheated, why wasn't this cancer picked up sooner. Why was I only being monitored for breast cancer.

Hello everyone

Although this conversation started as a question to the nurses it seemed to have changed into a broader discussion, so we haven’t been posting, as we didn’t want to interfere.  I hope you don’t mind me coming back into the discussion now, please ignore my post if you think I’m interfering.  The reason I am posting, is that I am wondering if there are some things I can say which might help to explain or add to the things you have been talking about. 

Firstly I wanted to reiterate one aspect of CRUK Nurse Julia’s post, which is that a lot of the basic lab research we fund is looking into the biology of cancer, how it spreads and how it is able to survive in other parts of the body.  If scientists can understand this better it will help enormously in stopping this from happening or treating it once it does.

Another issue that a few of you have mentioned is around follow up for cancer patients.  One of the difficulties with many cancers is that once they have spread, the treatments we have currently available can only usually control them for a while rather than curing them.  So sometimes it is debatable whether doing additional scans to detect recurrence earlier actually helps people to live longer.  And with many cancers, except in situations where it’s been shown by research that additional monitoring helps, it is better only to do tests to look for a recurrence once new symptoms arise, rather than going and looking for it while someone seems otherwise well.

Early detection of the primary cancer is still important though, in most cases, if cancer is caught at an early stage it is much more likely to be cured.  But sadly even in this situation, a proportion of people still have a recurrence, sometimes years after initial treatment.  And it is heart breaking when this happens.

As more research is done, especially in developing more tailored treatments that home in on specific characteristics of individual tumours after they have spread, it may be that ongoing monitoring is more helpful.  These treatments are usually categorised under the umbrella terms of biological therapies and immunotherapies and are the ones that we hope will, as joyfulljourney mentioned, turn some cancers into long term chronic conditions.

There is hope.  Some cancers now can already be treated successfully once they have spread. For example, when bowel cancer has spread to the liver, sometimes removing the secondary cancer can improve survival.  When I first started cancer nursing back in the late 80s this was unheard of. And some testicular cancers can be cured with chemotherapy even when they have spread to the lungs. 

Please do call us if there is anything you want to talk through with us individually.  Although we can’t always make things better we might be able to help with explanations and we are always able to listen.

I hope this has been helpful

Martin 

"I have read that only 5% of money donated to the big cancer charities actually goes towards research into Metastatic diesese and how it happens and still no one really knows how/what and why it happens and yet this is the only way that the big C actually kills."

Is that true? Where does the other 95% go then?

H Anjlemouse, so sorry to hear about your situation it's so desperately unfair. I hope that treatment works well for you and that the Cancer is controlled for as long as possible.  X

Thank you Nurse Martin that was helpful and appreciate you taking the time to respond with some interesting and valid points. It was also interesting to hear about cancers in the late 80's too. Hope there is a cure for cancers that have spread in my lifetime or like has been said it can be treated like a chronic illness. Thanks again x

Hi Jack, I'm not sure where the rest of the money goes, I think out of all the charities Cancer Research as they have said are researching into cell biology and how cancers spread which is a relief to know but I guess Cancer is such a massive epidemic that they have to spend money else where too, I wouldnassume a lot of money is spent on advertising, leaflets and awareness. Re the 5% I read this on a lot of sites, Second Hope in the UK and Metavivor in the US.

Hi [@jack2015][@alera90]‍ I Just thought I would pop onto this thread with some information about how we spend the donations we receive.

For every £1 donated, 80p is used to beat cancer (the remaining 20p goes towards raising funds for the future). The majority that we spend each year goes towards our ground-breaking research.

We have a  really informative blog which shows you how and where the money is spent which you might find of interest. You can view it here scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/.../

If you’d like to find out more about our finances, you can read more information in our Annual Report and Accounts http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-us/how-we-are-run/annual-report-and-accounts

I hope that helps clarify things for you

Best wishes

Moderator Sarah