Cachexia/refusal to refer

GP is reviewing person I care for face to face today. I think there is a suspicion of cachexia based on exceptionally low creatine (liver function). The result is about as low as it can be. There are some physical signs of wasting becoming apparent now too, though it's hard to admit it (hollowing cheeks, skinny ankles, loss of strength, belly grows but nothing else). My friend is eating about double what most people would eat in a day, so appetite remains good, but exercise is becoming harder and less effective.

GP had previously held off doing a new cancer referral while more tests were undertaken. When a GP suspects someone is starting to waste are they allowed to completely ignore new red flag cancer symptoms? Does this recent blood test result mean my friend will be refused any form of new Consultant referral? What are the protocols here? (I had accepted there would be no surgery, but to be totally written off is hard.)

Also, is cachexia possible with early stage cancers? I thought it was something that only appeared late-stage? (I do fully understand cachexia could be related to a co-morbidity rather than a cancer issue.) 

It just feels so horrible if doctors will no longer refer to hospital for any investigations. It's starting to feel like they are no longer interested in what is causing things, just tinkering around with symptom management. Are there any NICE or other guidelines which say how cancer red flags should be treated when there are co-morbidities? Is there anything it would be helpful for me to know here? 

I find it extremely hard when other people say go back to GP, they should be investigating these new cancer red flags. Doctors can treat these things. My friend went to GP, but it does seem normal rules are out the window. Doctors just say your systems are packing up, your brain is dying. But if they don't investigate things, would that mean no palliative care? Is there a stage at which they have to investigate?

I'm so confused by everything and really don't know how to manage this situation. Or what to say to people who think new cancer symptoms are being stupidly ignored. What on earth do I say to these people? I appreciate you may not be able to answer my questions. But, if there is any information that you feel it would be useful to know I'd be grateful if you could signpost me to it.

I should add perhaps that there had been previous cancer surgery, which was felt to have brought about a full cure with discharge back to GP after five years of monitoring during which there was some further surgery.

My friend is only in his sixties, it's not like he's super old. 

Thank you.

  • Hello RoseStarBlue and thanks for posting, 

    I am sorry to learn about all these concerns you have for the friend you help to care for and understand you wanting the best for them. 

    I'm afraid I can't easily answer your questions. Perhaps it would help if you have the chance to talk things through with the GP assuming your friend has given his permission for you to talk to their doctors. It might help to make a list of your concerns to go through and ask the GP to explain their thinking. 

    In someone who has been discharged several years after having cancer treatment, GPs can either refer anew or re-refer if they need specialist care or if a new type of cancer is suspected.

    Cancer reflags, that is symptoms that might be due to cancer and when GPs should refer, are covered in the suspected cancer referral guidelines produced by NICE (The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence). You can read them here.

    People with early stage cancers don’t usually get cachexia and I am unsure what the low creatinine level means.

    I hope that the face to face appointment with the GP today was fruitful and that your friend feels their situation is being properly addressed .

    It might be easier to talk this over on the telephone, if you want to give us a ring,  the number to call is Freephone 0808 800 4040 and we are here Monday to Friday (not Bank Holidays) from 9-5, 

    Best wishes,

    Julia

  • Thank you Julia,

    I do have permission to speak with GP, but the GP we built up a rapport with has retired and there seems to be a lack of joined up care going forwards. So deciding which of the GPs to speak to isn't so easy and I want to be clear about what is being asked before making any approach. 

    You have confirmed what I thought regarding cachexia and cancer.

    I'll double-check all the referral guidelines. Thank you very much for the link.

    Kind regards,

    Rose

  • I wrote everything down, but am having second thoughts about speaking to GP. I read a good booklet on Macmillan site about Cancer and Dementia and it isn't just surgery that can be problematic. I discovered chemo can cause dementia symptoms to worsen and he already has chronic diarrhoea, nausea, respiratory issues and more. Plus, there are mental health issues, including documented threats of self-harm. I'm vaguely recalling his saying to doctors, no more bad news (after he got told his brain was dying). Inoperable co-morbidities are already making life unbearable. If there are things the GP has not told him, I don't want to know either. It would be too hard to keep a secret. Thank you for helping me pull my thoughts together. The only thing I can do is make the best of each and every single day and not worry about investigating things further.

    Best wishes,

    Rose

  • I've now had sight of the latest review. Sadly, there is a frailty score, so sad given his (relatively young)age still. Again, thanks to all the nurses for recent replies. I needed to work things through in my mind. Be sure I'd done all I could. Thank you again for helping me.

    Kind regards,

    Rose